A few days ago, Brian in Jeollanam-do posted about a story recently published in the Chosun Ilbo bashing foreign English teachers. Hat tip to the Korea Beat, who translated the story here.
Earlier today, the Korea Beat posted this little tidbit about a panel of foreign women bashing foreign guys who go for Korean girls:
On the 6th the beautiful women of KBS2’s “Chat With Beauties” spoke critically on the topic of “Indecent Foreigners Living in Korea.”
After choosing as the worst foreigners in Korea those foreigners who always speak English or their native language, never learning Korean, and easily meet Korean women they said, “most western men approach Korean women by saying they want to learn Korean.”
They also said there are many foreigners who live in Korea for many years but speak poor Korean. Among the criticisms a particularly strong one came from Japan-born Sayuri, who said, “when you go to a foreign country, learning that country’s language is proper etiquette.”
They also implicitly criticized the attitude of Korean women who get involved with “tall foreign men who speak English.”
Kenya-born Euphracia said, “in Korea it seems that if you’re tall and just speak English well, you’re treated as the king… My other Kenyan friends were so surprised when they went out with they Korean girlfriends.” Germany-born Vera said, “if a German guy is tall then everybody thinks he’s handsome in Korea… They come to Korea and start acting like Casanova.”
UK-born Eva said, “foreign men who were not popular in their home countries are treated like kings… It’s so strange that western men who of course have very plan features are always being followed by pretty girls.”
While my thoughts in both these regards are like everyone else (try publishing facts instead of stupid racist/xenophobic crap), it got me to thinking about why Korean girls might go for Western guys. There are probably more than these eight reasons, but having dated some Korean women during my stay here (and asking Korean women the same question), I'd like to think I have an idea.1. We don't care about S-lines, V-lines, X-lines, or any of that BS. That we don't typically read the silly places where people make a big deal out of those makes it easier to ignore them.
2. Free English lessons. Walking English dictionary. We're English teachers, and we have no problem helping you with your homework (as long as we don't spend all our time on your homework!)
3. We're more comfortable if you're not anorexic. I've yet to hear a Western guy actually say to a Korean girl, 'if only you were a little skinnier'... Most Korean women don't get that 'you look great the way you are' very often.
4. We make money, and we're not afraid to spend it when we go out. While we don't want to buy every round (we do like it when our women buys us a drink every now and then), we have no problem putting down manwon for your favorite imported beer. No, we're not rich, like TI from "Whatever You Like" fame, but we're definitely better than the Weird Al remake or the Obama remake (seriously funny).
5. Westerners are more likely to treat you as an equal. It's not a universal concept among all Westerners yet, but it's a concept that Westerners have had decades more practice at.
6. We offer a way out of Korea. If you've been looking for a way out, Western guys do offer a way.
7. We don't really like the flower boys either. We're a bit more manly than that. So what if our closet isn't overflowing with tight dress shirts and polka-dot bow ties? Jeans and nice-looking shirts are all the Western guys need for going out after work is done. Also, if we get a flat tire while you're driving, we can change the darn tire ourselves without worrying about getting our pretty shirt dirty or calling some errand man.
8. We can talk about interesting things - much more interesting than work, clothes, drinking, and that crazy boss of ours. Quite a few of us sing, dance, play an instrument, write, cook, act, and many other things.
I should go on record by stating that I'm currently dating a beautiful foreign lady, and have been enjoying my time with her thoroughly. To the foreign ladies from the show, try not to be jealous or threatened just because you're not the popular 'miss thing' anymore. You might be beautiful, but if that's all you have I'm afraid you'll be looking for a bit longer...
Did I miss a reason why Korean girls go for Western guys? Comments are open - play nice. Sphere: Related Content
25 comments:
You missed at least one:
Rebellion against the parental units. Nothing will stick in the craw of a nationalistic old ajoesshi than his daughter dating a dirty foreigner. Take THAT, dad! (not very common, but I've seen a case or two of this over the years)
My wife has told me that less drinking was a strong selling point in my favor.
I would like to add that I have been living in Korea for four months now (and have yet to try any serious dating, I just got out of a three year relationship before I came here), but I have received a lot of pressure from my male and female Korean coworkers to find a Korean girlfriend. I am asked weekly by numerous coteachers at my schools if I have found a Korean girlfriend yet. I have also received numerous offers from my Korean coteachers to set me up with blind dates.
Yes, there is a lot of resentment for Western men dating Korean women, but there is also a lot of pressure too (or at least I have felt like it).
Jacob
http://roksojourn.blogspot.com
And let's not forget all the burdensome family ritual stuff that a wife is typically expected to take care of for a Korean husband's family (i.e., Chuseok, Seollal, Jaesa, etc.)
I think men are fundamentally same wherever I go. (-,.-)
Thinking about it, almost none of the male teachers I know have a girlfriend out here. Maybe it's a phenomenon exclusive to Seoul (I'm out in Yongin, and tbh not really familiar with Itaewon/Hongdae at night).
JungMi I think hits it. I don't know many women in Canada that are running around screaming what a dating paradise they're livin in.
If my experience dating Korean women is the same as a Korean woman dating a Western guy, then I would have to say it's a zero sum gain. There are many positives about dating Korean women (relative to Western women) but then there are negatives (relative to Western women).
It all depends on what you're currently looking for, I suppose. And your sitch can radically change. What was a positive can quickly become a negative.
One of the positives I've got from Korean women in Korea is Western men tend to be less formal and try to make their date laugh. If you teach children, you probably have 14 dates worth of cute stories about Korean kids. Sure fire material. Korean men, on the other hand, tend to be more serious (wanting to make it appear like they're good husband material).
Western women dating Korean men seem to enjoy the school boyish romantic things they do, they don't dance around what they really want, and the attentiveness. (Yeah I know if we did it, we'd be considered stalkers...but some women allow for cultural differences.)
Chris in SK's list should, of course, not be read as if whitey has all the positives and since he has positives, Korean men have only negatives.
I should also add, many of us treat our Korean gf like she's the most beautiful woman we've ever dated. Mostly because she is. We tell her that. We act like we really think that. It's quite powerful, I think, to a young Korean woman who has gone through life thinking she's average, maybe always getting criticism about her small eyes, her sharp cheekbones, her nose, her being a "flower pig" or whatever from a critical mother or other relative.
And then who of us doesn't treat our Korean GF like a genius, a life saver, when she's able to get things done in the K-sphere for us. She's like Kal-El away from Krypton.
Again, maybe she's had a life where she's had a mother or relative always bust on her: she can't make kimchi, she can't sew, she can't do x/y/z she'll never get a husband, she's stupid, she's useless, she's lazy, her grades are poor.
But then around us she feels like she has super powers. She can see the real joy when we do backflips because she was able to get us a ATM card, smooth out an issue with immigration, work the blower and find out information...
The stereotype on Japanese dramas is that foreign guys, particularly as husbands, are more willing to help with the housework and (eventually) childcare (at least, they do more than zero), are more emotionally accessible, and spend more time at home.
The stereotype on Japanese dramas is that foreign guys, particularly as husbands, are more willing to help with the housework and (eventually) childcare (at least, they do more than zero), are more emotionally accessible, and spend more time at home.
I've never met any woman who thought domestication was particularly sexy and attractive.
Hey babe...I can cook, clean, wash the clothes, change the diapers.
Nope, I don't think that works as a good pick-up line.
It might be inappropriate to write my personal things here, but I am compelled to do so.
I lived in England for 3 and half years and used to meet tones of guys who told "You're beautiful!" almost every day regardless their race and occupation at everywhere even including a library and a police station. However I dated with none of them.
If a girl met this sort of guy from time to time, she might be touched, but I was always in doubt. "Are they O.K?"- and unlike most men think, women do think that is quite odd- again regardless their race.
One obvious fact is that there is a certain prejudice or male fantasy regarding 'typical' Asian women, and some Asian girls seem to get self-esteem from them, too. However I am not inclined to that deal at all, since I do not need it and that is not my cup of tea.
However well, people..and that is a matter of one's taste, which should remain in one's choice. And eventually what people wish and expect was same considering my observation. Everyone wanted to be beloved and accepted and wanted to find someone they can really love with- so I wrote men are fundamentally same- I really think so.
Finally, regarding Western men and me, only very best advantage was 'they never ask why I am so different from usual people.' Most of them just thought 'Oh, because she is a foreigner, so she may not know about my culture very well'-sorry, but I am not. But this works very well. I do not need to explain 'Why I am so different'-like Nietzsche with millions words, yet can be relaxed in silence.
And I agree with Mr. Kobukson.
Personally I do not find a man cook is typically attractive to me, rather I prefer a man who can work better at his job, since that is much better for many reasons, such as his social confidence and self-esteem. I think not so many men would boast "Listen, guys! I can cook very well!! Hahaha!" at a pub when he is drinking with only his male friends....So... My problem? I can cook well and work better than most of them....
While there was an interesting story according to an Irish flatmate. She told "It doesn't matter if a man can earn million pounds, but he can't cook. I can hire a cook."
(-.-) well, again 'finding a millionaire!' is not my cup of tea at all, but what a nice idea...
Great comments everyone - keep 'em coming!
@JungMi: That many men may have told you 'you're beautiful' validates it. Most Western men would indeed say that Asian women are beautiful, perhaps thanks to the way they are portrayed in Western media. They're exotic; they take care of themselves; they stay in shape; and so on.
We could also say that women are fundamentally the same - they seek to be loved, cared for, and respected for the unique person they are. I submit that Korean women may not be 'excited' about the dating scene as mindmetoo says, but if one chooses to date, one has a choice on whom that'll be.
Everybody - there's just about enough new reasons in the comment board for a part 2. Anybody got any more? Full credit goes to those who comment :)
My Korean girlfriend says we give bigger praise and we do it more often. And in turn, we offer more sympathy when things turn sour.
And she informs me many Korean men say sorry without even knowing what they should be sorry for. i.e. being treated as an equal is better than being treated like a princess.
And she likes the idea that in Western movies, fathers are often kind and sweet whereas in Korean movies, the father will often be strict and kingly.
PS And the high bridge on our noses. Yojachingu is saying maybe she's watched too many Hollywood movies kk!
The reason "Korean girls" go for "Western boys" is because 1. Western boys are in Korea. and 2. There are Korean girls here. The fundamental point being that males and females are pretty much the same wherever you go. It's all about different personality preferences and attraction...attraction not only being in the physical sense. Every reason offered in the posts that I've read can be applied in any country to any ethnic class for example, less drinking, rebellion against parental units, the potential to relocate to a different country, the exotic appearance, stereotypical beliefs, the constant compliments, readily available and willingness to drop some cash,etc...etc...these are all reasons for females to like or dislike males and vice versa in any environment whether it be in Korea, Istanbul or Walla Walla Washington. The mere idea of raising this as a subject of a forum is really just comparing the stereotypes of asian cultural differences against that of the western and that's exactly what it is, Stereotyping. Here's a suggestion on a title for a forum. "Reasons and theories on why males and females are attracted to those outside of their own culture and heritage". Opinions anyone?
I'd have to agree with Kangaroo on this one.The underlying factor here is attraction.I'm a foreign lady living in Seoul and the dating scene here is about as random as it is at home. You like who you like at the end of the day.Sometimes it's more biology than sociology.It isn't always easy to pin down romantic motives whether it be companionship, affection, security, curiosity, or loneliness. Whether you are foreign or local: TREAT OTHERS WITH RESPECT!
Sure women and men are the same whereever you go... yadayadayada
What about social pressures to achieve a certain level in society in men? What about overscruitinization of women to keep their reputation spotless, pure and innocent? Are they the same in every country and culture? I think not...
The only similarity between western women and Korean women is biology (Although some would argue even this >.<)<--- OK that was uncalled for...but I couldn't resist^^
Korean women are overwhelmed by "남는 눈의식한것" the feeling of self-concousness brought on by overscruitinizing peers. I work in a company of 600 Koreans and am the only whitey there. Korean women at my company avoid me like I have the plague. However I don't see the same treatment when I'm outside of work.
If you ask me physical attraction in our DNA. Let me explain- I will try to be short.
2 brother are born... 1 ends up attracted to women who look like mom and the other attracted to exotic women...experts say the reason for this is brother 1 is more likely to stay with the group and hold it together while brother #2 goes out into the world seeking new DNA to eventually bring back to the group and help keep it strong.
If you ask me Korea has been isolated in the same gene pool for so long they have no choice but to branch out or die off...Why else would the birth rate be halted and divorce be through the roof...women's lib. can only explain so much
That ignorant crap lifer11 wrote is the stupidest shit I ever heard...You're a moron trying to sound intelligent...it's no wonder the Korean women avoid you like the plague...they're probably allergic to idiots.
@kangaroo: Divisive topics notwithstanding, personal attacks are not permitted. Please watch your tone in future comments or your comments may be deleted in the future.
"Reasons and theories on why males and females are attracted to those outside of their own culture and heritage".
Dearest kangaroo
read my 2 brothers theory...
it's no wonder the Korean women avoid you like the plague...they're probably allergic to idiots.
I have to chucle at this^^ you obviously don't know me at all
"The reason "Korean girls" go for "Western boys" is because 1. Western boys are in Korea. and 2. There are Korean girls here. The fundamental point being that males and females are pretty much the same wherever you go."
Is this why I have been attracted to asian girls since I was 8 years old even though I had never met one?
I'm an ignorant idiot moron? hmmm yes your "men are men and women are women" theory is trully profound
came across this whilst searching for something completely different. however, kudos to the OP for tackling a rather sensitive and shoo-ed up topic. it's a shame things turned into a flame war towards the end but seeing as how this topic is still relevant allow me to add another bit of salt to the bucket.
i believe that your opinions, if they have to be, can be categorized into the following two -
1. believing that this phenomenon of korean girls dating non-koreans is blatant racial stereotyping of dating scene that occurs everywhere, and...
2. that it is an occurrence fueled by certain traits present in non-korean males that korean males do not possess. or by social brainwashing of korean girls. or any other millions of things which you could attribute to korean girls digging non-korean guys.
i agree to a degree with both sides, but i don't believe the problem is so simple - we do have both korean girls who specifically will date no one but non-koreans and non-korean guys who will take the girls coming to them either knowing that advantage or believing that the girls truly like them for who they are regardless of their race. and there's no proof supporting either side of the argument.
true, we have guys who would never be able to get girls outside of korea come here and turn casanova - but korean guys will go over to china and do the same thing. assuming all human beings are equal, koreans are not really at a loss for doing so - it occurs everywhere, just at a different rate at different times. eventually there will come a point in time when korean girls will have different standards when it comes to dating non-korean guys - possibly not the same as an american dating an american, but foreigners are being more commonplace in korea and the novelty of being a foreigner is becoming less and less. most koreans spend at least a year or two overseas now - and are slowly but surely adopting a different standard for looking at a person.
having a different skin color does not make one guy superior to another. and if a girl is stupid enough to think that, then she deserves whoever it is that she will sleep/marry/have children with. and no, the genetics theory doesn't hold, neither, because according to genetic biologists, korean gene, amongst all asians, is the one most resistant to change - hence interbreeding will not impact korean gene pool as it would an any other gene pool.
to sum up the whole thing - korean girls are undereducated/unfamiliar with what a caucasian/african-american should be like, and the standards they adhere to in order to be considered a "good catch" in their native homeland. but they will catch on to it eventually. until then, let racial stereotyping girls and boys have their fun (and regrets, possibly)
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