It seems I hit a nerve. My wonderful readers have all brought up some great points that I hadn't originally thought about - along with a couple that never occured to me. Without further ado, I present eight MORE reasons Korean women go for Western guys (in no particular order, mostly taken from the comments of the previous post, with full credit going to them for their words):
1. From the ROK Hound: "Rebellion against the parental units. Nothing will stick in the craw of a nationalistic old ajoesshi than his daughter dating a dirty foreigner. Take THAT, dad!" I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few women are looking to spring the system - whether Daddy likes it or not. Western guys are far more likely to break from tradition and do things the way we choose instead of the way dictated by the culture.
2. From Rob: "My wife has told me that less drinking was a strong selling point in my favor." That really does say something, whether it's a commitment to your health, preferring to be in control, or you spend your money on things other than alcohol.3. From holterbarbour: "let's not forget all the burdensome family ritual stuff that a wife is typically expected to take care of for a Korean husband's family. (i.e., Chuseok, Seollal, Jaesa, etc.)". I'll admit I had never heard of the Jaesa ceremony before, but a blogger named Mel wrote about it a few years ago. As for the other rituals, it's probably not exactly fun to have to cook for the Korean in-laws, who often expect perfection or something a bit better.
4. From mindmetoo: "Western men tend to be less formal and try to make their date laugh. If you teach children, you probably have 14 dates worth of cute stories about Korean kids." Whether working with kids makes you want to have your own or voluntarily sterilize yourself, you'll definitely have stories to tell. The laughing part is important as well, and I'm sure it gives her the approval she needs to tell a funny story herself.
5. Mindmetoo again: "many of us treat our Korean gf like she's the most beautiful woman we've ever dated. Mostly because she is. We tell her that. We act like we really think that. It's quite powerful, I think, to a young Korean woman who has gone through life thinking she's average, maybe always getting criticism about her small eyes, her sharp cheekbones, her nose, her being a "flower pig" or whatever from a critical mother or other relative. And then who of us doesn't treat our Korean GF like a genius, a life saver, when she's able to get things done in the K-sphere for us. She's like Kal-El away from Krypton."
Positive reinforcement - it's a beautiful thing. I'd be a bit turned off if a person commented on the shape of my nose or looked at me disapprovingly because I wore a low-cut dress on a first date (both true stories I've heard from Korean women I've dated). For the first time in a long time (and possibly your life!) , the guy you're out with is saying you're beautiful, you're so helpful, etc. If I could've done a backflip, I would've for my Korean girlfriends in the past (getting bus tickets in advance, fighting for a discount, etc.).
6. Wintersweet wrote: "The stereotype on Japanese dramas is that foreign guys, particularly as husbands, are more willing to help with the housework and (eventually) childcare (at least, they do more than zero), are more emotionally accessible, and spend more time at home." All good points - equality is a bit more ingrained in Western men, and whether we want to or not some chores do get done by us. Some are done more willingly than others, but hopefully time to begin to dispel it as simply a stereotype and more of a reality. It may not be a pick-up line on the first date (HT to kobukson and Jungmi), but can certainly help in the leap from girlfriend to something more serious.
7. We don't expect you (or want you) to be prim and proper all the time. We know you have opinions about what's going on, so we want to hear them.
8. The smarter Western guys find the thing(s) that make a Korean woman unique; what makes her stand out from everyone else.
Lest my Western male begin getting a big, overconfident head on their shoulders, I should note that Korean guys do have their charms. Playing the devil's advocate, I thought I might try to present the other side of the story. In a future post, though. Stay tuned. Sphere: Related Content
15 comments:
why do you need a reason to love someone? korean guys? foreign guys? who cares? i have met plenty of jerks in just about all nationalities and that includes americans. when you love someone, you love him for what he is. for me, if i can't communicate with my boy friend with the language i am proficient in, that is not going to work.
Worth pointing out that Korean men are popular in Japan because they're considered both sensitive and strong. How much of that continues beyond marriage is anybody's guess.
Maybe it's simply for the same reasons most Asian countries ban their women from marrying Korean guys - their track record in wife beating and adultery are staggering...
(Hey, I didn't think I could comment on this without using the phrase 'BIGGER PENISES'... Oops)
I'll just say that one more time... BIGGER PENISES...
@Don: With all the reasons why *not* to date / be with a foreigner within the Korean media, it seemed only fair to try and tell the other side of the story. Yes, love in many cases can and does transcend cultural barriers - except when that culture holds you back because of misinformation and xenophobia.
@Korean Rum Diary: LOL. I try to keep my posts to a level where I wouldn't be embarrassed if my mom were to find it, thus the reason what happens in the bedroom department didn't make the list.
Yeah, my mum found my blog... It simply makes her want to never visit Korea.
korean rum diary is a perfect example of a jerk. disguised as a witty straight shooter but in fact insensitive, condescending and somewhat filled with superiority complex. but then again, what ever floats his boat.
Yeah, don't get a big head. My motto is "it's easy to get a date in Korea but 'a' is the operative word. As in one."
It's very easy to find a Korean woman that wants a coffee date with a foreigner. But most stop there. Thanks, it's been fun, later. Don't take it personally. Don't get your hopes up. And for gods sake if you set it up as a "language exchange" don't be surprised if she shows up with her hair pulled back, a sweat shirt, jeans, books, and pencils and takes your offer at face value. Korean women generally assume men are direct in what they want. Friendship means friendship not "a non threatening way of getting to know each other before the fun slide time."
Korean women are not stupid and can grasp the problems inherent in dating you. Your time in Korea is limited. If she follows you to Canada or the USA, what is her future there? Her English makes her employable in Korea but would seem FOBish in North America and might mean her trading her job in marketing at Samsung for a job waitressing until she improves her skills. Korea isn't a third world nation (despite claims by Dave's users). A Korean woman with a university education and English fluency can do okay in Korea. And things are getting better all the time. I don't know too many Korean women that truly truly want to escape Korea. Some talk about it, fantasize, but when the rubber hits the road Korea seems perfect. How many times have you asked your students "besides Korea where would you want to live in the world?" and most of them answer "Korea". That attitude doesn't necessarily change when they hit 24.
There are family issues as well. Then there's always the Yankee Lover stigma that's been present in Korea forever. Koreans are conditioned since birth that the only way they can ever pay their family back for years of education, clothing, food, shelter, is to produce 100% Korean grand kids. If she defies her parents, goes with you, and it doesn't work out, and her parents don't accept her back, she's alone in the world. The threat of being alone, with nothing to fall back on, freaks Koreans out.
Also bear in mind unless you speak Korean you're competing with a limited dating pool: Korean women who can speak English and can negotiate the roadblocks and future uncertainties inherent in dating you. Younger Korean women might have less concerns about the future. Did you assume the woman you were with at age 20 would be your last? As they approach 28, psychology may change.
Your chances of finding a Korean GF are about the same as finding a GF back at home. If you had a GF before, you'll find one here. It might take a Korean woman a couple extra dates to see through a loser's foreign ways but eventually they will Oprah it out on their own.
Anyway, fellow readers of this blog, you experience is probably different in some ways. But that's how I've seen it. I'm sure I've got some of it wrong.
Regarding Korean men, based on my Western women friends who go Korean this is what I've heard:
1) Many came to Korea assuming it would be a year without sex. They never thought about Asian men and were armed with stereotypes about the local whiteys.
2) Longer they were in the culture, evolutionary psychology took hold and spotting the society's alpha males took hold.
3) Korean men are romantic and thoughtful.
4) They're a bit timid (hence less threatening) while trying to romance a western woman.
5) They have slender hairless bodies. (Ouch coming from a man who has a nice crop of chest hair … tho no back hair.)
6) What women don't like men with dark hair?
7) Good jobs, career prospects. Korean men they meet are well educated.
8) Cultured. All those piano and violin lessons they were forced into, you know?
9) Attentive. Yes, 8 calls a day is stalker material but some women give them a culture pass. It doesn't imply they lack a life. It's just how they show they care.
10) Family oriented, ready to be adults. Last thing a woman wants is to be saddled with a guy who appears like his life's aspiration is to play Xbox 24/7. Korean men are ready to work hard, raise kids, etc.
11) Treat them like they're the most beautiful women in the world. Remember average looking Korean women look gorgeous to us. Average looking white women look gorgeous to Korean men. Have you ever seen the chicks on that Oh My God Pretty White Women Speak Korean show? Some of them look like crack whores and you wonder what all the fuss is. A white woman can carry an extra few pounds and the Korean man won't even notice.
12) They dress well. I know we puke our guts out when we see a guy wearing a pink cravat. And if we did it, instant gay. But again, western women wave it away as being a different culture.
Anyway, don't kill the messenger. I'm just giving you what I've heard. For every example that proves the rule about Korean men, women, and whitey, there are examples that disprove the rule. Note well what I said earlier about it being a zero sum game. But when you're on the hunt, you will see the positives, always.
Chris, how long have you been in Korea? I was very shocked to hear that you weren't already familiar with 제사!!
I don't think Korean women go for western guys more than Korean guys. Korean women are women before they are Korean, if you're good looking, sensible and friendly, your chances are as good in Korea as they are anywhere else. Korean women don't flock to western men just because they're white. My dad is Korean and my mom is white, which makes this even funnier. It's wrong to classify every asian woman/caucasian man couple as "she likes bigger dicks" or make retarded Full Metal Jacket references. That proves nothing other than perhaps, douchebagness. Korean women aren't stupid as mindmetoo pointed out, they'll know when a guy is a loser and they'll stay away. If you're a loser at home who can't get a date, don't expect one in Korea, unless you just want to give free english lessons to girls who pretend they like you.
Great post Chris! Oh man, this reminds me of a conversation I got with some Koreans about good traits average Koreans have and good traits average Westerners have. In the end everyone pretty much just said they evaluate on an individual basis. Of course, we were in Canada so some said they dated the locals pretty much just to get English (ouch!) but still preferred Koreans.
If you get talking, and a Korean woman likes you, then she likes you. The rest of it - the whole being a foreigner, speaking English etc - will then just be a side issue, just like any other relationship. A relationship happens because the people involved like the other person.
Obviously other things will be factored in, but that's the simple fact of it.
This sort of stuff is like reading an article in a woman's magazine like Cosmopolitan except it was written by a dude.
Reasons why Korean women for Western guys. Written by a Western guy, of course, who presumes to speak for Korean women. I'd rather read something written by a Korean woman. That'd be the real deal.
I absolutely agree with don's very first comment.
I know both Korean and Western cultures very well, and the men of both cultures very well, but I'm going to keep my mouth shut and see how this plays out.
I would ABSOLUTELY love to see your list of the good things about Korean guys! Please please please do!
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